Ep 64: Shattering Sustainable Investing Myths with Emily Lee

We are continuing our series on sustainable investing. We have so far talked about proxy voting and impact bonds. And today we're going to talk a little bit about investing for the future.

What does that mean?

Well, that means we're welcoming one of my dear partners, Emily Lee from Impax Asset Managers. She is the Vice President of Business Development and a key partner that I utilize in my investment management when it comes to sustainability for my clients. Impax has been around for 50 years, so they're not new to this game, and neither is Emily. We're going to talk focusing on where we are right now and the growing popularity of sustainable investing, what impact women and future generations have on sustainable investing, and then what you, as the end investor, can really make an impact on. So I hope that you'll tune into today's episode and share this free educational resource, as well. Sharing doesn't cost you anything but it us to spread even more education and awareness.

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Securities offered through LPL Financial, a member of FINRA/SIPC. Advisory services offered through Advisors' Pride, a SEC registered investment advisor. LPL Financial, Advisors' Pride, Forethought Planning and the guests of Thrive For[e]ward podcast are separate and unaffiliated parties. Lisa Harris and Lisa Harris & Co are not affiliated with Forethought Planning, Advisor's Pride, or LPL Financial. The views expressed here are those of the participants, and not those of Forethought Planning, Advisor's Pride, or LPL financial. The opinions voiced in this material are for general information only and are not intended to provide specific advice or recommendations for any individual. LPL Financial and Forethought Planning do not offer legal services.   


Securities offered through LPL Financial, a member of FINRA/SIPC. Advisory services offered through Advisors' Pride, a SEC registered investment advisor. LPL Financial, Advisors' Pride, Forethought Planning and the guests of Thrive For[e]ward podcast are separate and unaffiliated parties. Lisa Harris and Lisa Harris & Co are not affiliated with Forethought Planning, Advisor's Pride, or LPL Financial. The views expressed here are those of the participants, and not those of Forethought Planning, Advisor's Pride, or LPL financial. The opinions voiced in this material are for general information only and are not intended to provide specific advice or recommendations for any individual. LPL Financial and Forethought Planning do not offer legal services. 

Transcript

0:02  
Hello friends welcome to the Thrive Forward podcast. We are in a continuation of our series on sustainable investing. We have so far talked about topics related to kind of one on one sustainable investing last week's episode, we talked about proxy voting and impact bonds. And today we're going to talk a little bit about investing for the future. What does that mean? Well, that means we're welcoming one of my dear partners, Emily Lee from impacts asset managers, she is the Vice President of Business Development. And a key partner that I utilize in my investment management when it comes to sustainability for my clients. impacts has been around for 50 years, they're not new to this game, and neither is Emily. So we're going to talk a little bit about how we focus on where we are right now, why is there all of this popularity around sustainable investing? What do women and future generations like millennials and Gen Z have as an impact to sustainable investing? And then what is it that you as the end investor can really make an impact on? Why should you be choosing this? And what does that impact have on the future? So I hope that you'll tune into today's episode, I hope you'll share sharing on the podcast allows us to be able to continue to do this provide free educational resources to our audience, and by you sharing doesn't cost you anything to do. But it allows our message to be continued to be spread and more education and awareness to be built, especially around this topic of sustainability. It is so so, so important. So continue to press play. Let's head over to the episode.

1:55  
All right, Emily, thank you so much for joining the Thrive Forward podcast, I'm grateful for you and impacts this partnership and for you taking some time out of your busy schedule to hang with us on the podcast.

2:08  
Yeah, thanks for having me. It's exciting. Thanks so much.

2:11  
Well, you and I come from very passionate backgrounds around stainable investing. And I was actually at the eye doctor yesterday. And I was talking to the people in the building about what I do, and how I focus on sustainable investing and investing with purpose and things that are good for the people the planet and profit and they were like, that exists.

2:37  
to spread the word everywhere you go.

2:39  
that exists. And I was like, Yes, Yes, it does. Here's my business card. Here's my business card. Um, but in all reality, I think that there are so many people that have no idea that they can actually align themselves with maybe not necessarily their value system. But how do we progress the world forward in a way that makes impact for the greater good when it comes to people, planet, and profit all together? I call it the three, the three P's. I don't think I invented that I think I robbed that from somebody else. But

3:14  
you can always take it and take it and run with it. Yeah, I think that's great, especially to in the in the sort of in the public market space, and where you know, in your 401k and your IRA and like the everyday places where you tend to do more saving you can there's always areas to make that impact. So I love that you're spreading that spreading that message and and that we get to talk about it today.

3:34  
Yeah, so I, I think we've talked about a couple of different things already on the podcast this month. So we're, we've talked about in general, what is sustainable investing. So if you guys are just joining this episode of the podcast, tune back into the first episode of October, we kind of run through that we won't go through 101 today. And then we've talked about impact bonds and proxy voting. And then we've talked about how we can make sustainability come alive and other aspects of our lives. So where we shop, where we give, where we work within our 401k is all of those different things. But I'd love to hear from you kind of what is the current state status of sustainable investing? Why is it grown in popularity? And maybe where is it going into the future? Why should an end investor think about this as something as a potential?

4:26  
It's a great question. You know, I'm at I'm at a firm that's been doing this for 50 years. So we might have been a little ahead of the popularity curve in this space. But what's exciting is that it's it's always evolving, there's always more data to capture, there's more conversations to be had with companies. And I think there's just been so many issues that have been kind of bubbling up to the surface, whether it's, you know, issues of racial inequality or social issues that we've all faced during the pandemic, obviously, environmental issues, climate change issues. So many of these things, not only our individual investors Taking a look at and thinking, jeez, how is this representative in my portfolio? How can I not only not be invested in things I'm not comfortable with, but how can I actually make that impact beyond performance to have a better environment, a better society. And I think at the same time, we're coming into this nice inflection point where companies, whether driven from their own sort of recognition of the business case around sustainability, or being pushed there, for legislative reasons, cost savings reasons, they are also taking a closer look and, and a more transparent, you know, look, if you will, on, on issues around sustainability. So I think, you know, at our firm, we really have this viewpoint that we're at a transition point right now, where we're transitioning to a more sustainable economy. What we mean by that is, you know, for so long money tends to be invested in a very short sighted way where you're just focused on profit at any cost. And we're realizing, and companies are realizing governments are realizing that, that that, that actually does have a big cost a big cost to society and to the environment. And so thinking and framing it in this way, I think, is a good way for us as as asset managers to move forward. And I think as investors, you know, there's so many more options today out there, which I know can be confusing, which is why they've got a great interpreter and you Shana does sort of filter through the noise of what sort of, you know, true and authentic, sustainable investing, as opposed to what's maybe a lighter flavor, if you will. So I think, you know, and we can run through some of the numbers of the of the growth, but but we really feel like the trajectory is, is strong. And I think the great thing, too, is is, you know, conversations that you have with clients, they'll bring up issue areas that you'll then bring to me, and it's always a constant conversation about, you know, how about this? What are you looking at for this? So it's not sort of a one and done assessment. When we think about sustainability, it's constantly evolving, which I think is exciting.

6:48  
Yeah, absolutely. I could not agree more. In fact, when I explained it to clients, I think it's actually the investing of the future. Hmm, I like that. Because I think if we look at if we start to look at the change and shift in wealth period, throughout demographics, both looking at that, from the change of the great transition of wealth, over the next 10 years, there's, you know, 30, plus trillion dollars in assets that are going to transition from women, or from men to women, and then maybe to the next generation after that, right. And really, we start to see the younger generation, the millennial generation, Gen Z, very conscious about social issues, very conscious about what's happening in the world. And so I think they're gonna ask no questions about what's actually happening with my money, and the workforce dynamics change to Who are those individuals in leadership roles? And that, you know, that that's a common topic addressed through sustainability, right, is what what does the the C suite look like? What do director level and above look like? How is that workforce compensation? Looking like from an actual not compensation of money, but compensation of the people that are in the seats? Right. And I think that, that becomes more and more important, as we start to shift to the hands of, of wealth. Have you guys seen that, in some of the research that you've done around impact in sustainable investing?

8:23  
Here, we definitely have, it's really interesting, I feel like, you know, I've been in this space for about seven or so years, and some of the early research reports were saying, Oh, this is, you know, a blessing space. And and now it's sort of, I feel like it's, it's growing to be kind of, you know, could be something for everybody. But you're right, with this shift in wealth, there's certainly, I think, a bias to the younger generation of not just even wanting sustainable investing, but sort of expecting that, that if they're working within it with an advisor, that, you know, of course, they're going to be able to have these conversations about what their values mean to them, they're going to have transparency around the impact. So kind of I love seeing that that shift in mindset. And we even work with advisors who, you know, who've got, you know, families they're working with, where they're trying to develop, you know, what is the values we're trying to go after, and it's going to be different, sometimes generation by generation, but, but the sort of beautiful thing about the sustainable investing space is you can kind of tweak and emphasize where you really want to have the most impact whether you really want to focus on like you said, gender and diversity or whether you want to think about environmental issues. So we've certainly seen the the, you know, the mentum continue to grow. I think right now it's, it's one out of every $3 in the US is is invested in some form of sustainable investing. And when you kind of dig into the deeper trends, you know, climate always continues to be a big trend, but we're seeing now for kind of the first time workforce issues really come come to the surface and that's been obviously fueled by the by the pandemic and so, having not only investors kind of recognize and asking these questions about you know, where They're investing and also where they're working. But having companies in turn recognize we need to kind of get ahead of these these issues and really reflect better, you know, from from our corporate boardrooms on down to really who are who our customers are, who society is. So I think it's a really exciting time.

10:16  
Yeah, I sat in a room, this is probably three years ago, even before it was pre pandemic, right? pandemic post pandemic, right. But I had gone to this seminar or something like that, and it had nothing to do with finances. It's actually for entrepreneurs. So I love to like be in rooms with different thought processes and what's going on. And it was this woman who was talking about research and research based on different generations, and she was talking about Gen Z. And everybody's like, everybody did with millennials, and I happen to be a millennial. Everybody in a box, man, I don't know how to work, they always want these things. Like computers, what's their problem? Like now that becomes the aspect of like, Gen Z, like they're pushing the envelope, they're protesting, they want all this change, but they want I like, to have flexibility.

11:13  
So many demands. So many

11:15  
demands, right? That seems so you know, I laughed sarcastically because I feel like everybody's always wanted that. But nobody's actually really talked about it. And she sat in front of us, and she's a marketing expert, and she said, Gen Z, if you're not doing something good with their dollars, they absolutely will not want to work with you. Mm hmm. So as we look at these transitions of wealth as individuals move, and we start to hear, you know, there are many statistics out there that say, you know, in the first year, a woman inherits wealth from her husband, or from family members, they transition and move to a new advisor. I have seen that, in my own practice, people have moved to me and inherited wealth because they didn't align with the values or they didn't have the questions that were asked from a service perspective. And more and more women are more concerned with these elements. And then if we start to look at millennials, and Gen Z, we will start to see some of those things, as well. But I'm kind of curious, what are those elements that are most important, as we go forward on a sustainable? What is what is the impact? Really, I think we talk about it from a big picture. But when we start to get granular, what are the things that are actually happening? And what can we see in the future?

12:43  
It's a great question. So you know, one of the things we do at our firm, we do a lot of deep, what we call ESG analysis. So we look at the environmental, social and governance, I know you probably cover that in your kind of one on one session, but it's it's it's so much more than just sort of checking the boxes, it's really finding out how transparent is the company around a lot of these issues? So how are they dealing with climate change risk? How are they thinking about diversity, what sort of practices they have to really improve on diversity within their organization, so a lot of different factors they're working with. And what we're finding is, is, from both the research perspective, as well as the engagement work that we do, so we go beyond just the scoring of companies to really talk with them, push them forward, ask them questions around these different ESG issues. And you know, it used to be sometimes back in the day that that was a bit more combative with public companies, it was sort of a, okay, ask your questions, file your proposals, but but it's not gonna be something we're really going to deal with. And we're more and more seeing, maybe not companies being super proactive, you know, coming to us asking us about what the big issues are, but definitely more of a dialogue that we're having with with companies, companies kind of stepping up and saying, Hey, this is what we're doing. What do you think? How can we be better transparent around these issues? So, you know, a lot of times those conversations are making the making the business case for the companies and I think through, you know, whatever pressure angles, it might be, they're starting to realize we need to really be proactive when it comes to a lot of these ESG issue areas. Because if not, it's really a risk to the company, right is going to be a financial risk of reputational risk. And so I think it's an interesting time where we're kind of coming together with that, you know, companies being more aware of having to really focus around sustainability while at the same time you know, clients are really demanding it so i think i think those things are helping to again continue to kind of push it forward to make us really have to focus in on on an issue areas have to really think about what's the what's the long term goals of these different companies and you know, especially with like small cap companies, where maybe they can't be as transparent around the good things they're doing, we see them kind of starting from the ground up to build their company around a framework of sustainability, which I think is really exciting. And, and I think our feeling is you know, those companies that are sort of, unwilling to transition or unable to kind of adapt to this new environment are are Gonna Face Face risks. And so that's why we tend to really try to work with and invest in those companies that are really looking forward.

15:07  
Yeah, I think a lot of times, especially as an end investor, we forget how you and I work in this every single day. So we can see the intricate parts of things. But when you're the end investor, you put everything on autopilot, and you walk away from it, and you do all the other stuff that's more important to you than dealing with this, which is like 90% of the people I work with, right? They're like, Ah, you got this Shannon, like, I don't want to worry about it. The reality is, when we give up that control, we lose the impact. And I think we don't take we actually are owners in companies, right? Like, we are investors, we are owners in a company. And even if we're mutual fund owners, we're owners of the mutual fund, and therefore, you know, somewhat owners of those stocks that aren't within funds, right? Definitely should have I mean, our money is helping companies grow, I've explained it very, like, remedial for some of the folks that I work with. And some people in our industry might laugh at it. But when you own if the stock is like a popularity contest, when when some when, when somebody buys one stock, and everybody's like, yeah, that's really great, I'm gonna go buy two, then the stock price goes up and you make more money. And, you know, when when everybody decides they don't want it anymore, and they sell, then your stock price goes down, right? And, and that's where I think we don't take the ownership of understanding the integral parts, and how our wealth can actually help these companies continue to be successful and continue to do things that might not actually be doing the things we want, right? I'm a mom, I have two little girls, I would love for them to see a world to live in, in the future, right? And so, you know, global warming is something I'm concerned with, what what are we doing to make sure that they physically have a planet to live on. And that's a huge concern of mine, I also want to make sure that all of their friends have equal opportunities than them. Just because I have white babies doesn't mean that they shouldn't have the same opportunity to brown and brands of different pigmentation shouldn't have the same opportunities. So I think that that's where we start to not only realize like, it's not just our 401k it's that we're actually owners and those companies, how would you say this transition? Or popularity? sustainability? We know it's been around for a long time, everyone, welcome to the party.

17:46  
We're here. Welcome,

17:49  
always welcome. Beer might be a little cold, but we'll freshen it up for you. Um, but how do we explain some of this ownership translating into the future impact? Like, what does that look like in the future? If we can transition wealth into sustainable investing? What could that world look like for us in the future?

18:13  
Yeah, it's very powerful. And I think it's a great way to think of it from that sort of, you know, ideal standpoint and the world we all want to live in, and the kind of world you want to, you know, leave behind for your children, and then kind of think back and say, hey, what, what can we do today to help us on that path, right, because obviously, some of these issue areas not going to be solved tomorrow. And even with, you know, the engagement in the conversations we have with with companies, it sometimes takes years, but it's kind of fun, because we've been doing the engage work for so long to look back and say, Alright, well, maybe that took four years, but look how far they've come from, from those initial conversations. So, you know, I think starting from that place of like, really, what's that ideal, sustainable society where, where we're, you know, all living harmoniously, with, with nature with society, we're all prospering in a way that doesn't take away from tomorrow's generation, right? Thinking about sort of sustainability characteristics. So, you know, it's it's a great point you made about these public companies right there, they're succeeding and existing because of our investments, and you're very much an owner in that company. And so as an owner, not only do you have the right to sort of see the company make changes, but you want the company to be really transparent about what they're truly doing. Right. I think we can all see, you know, headlines are blurbs on a company's website about them supporting certain things, but but how is that actually translated into the decisions they're making every day or the workforce that they employ, or how they work within their, you know, supply chains across the world? So I think it is really important to, to really ask the tough questions to know what we like is companies to really make firm commitments. So rather than coming back and saying, sure, we consider climate change, and we're We're all for fixing the planet. But okay, well, what does that actually mean? Are you making a firm time bound commitment to reduce your greenhouse gases are you, you know, a signatory to various, you know, un environmental principles. So, so getting that transparency, I think, is really important. So, I think that work is more important than ever. And again, I think having, you know, consumers and owners of these companies kind of voice their concerns and work through advisor like yourself, and then knowing you've got firms like us out there that are, that are on the ground, kind of doing this engagement with companies, I think there's there's nothing we can accomplish, right? knowing it's going to take some time, and it's going to take, you know, maybe some legislative pressures, some consumer pressures, you know, maybe more, you know, regulatory pressures, where they're sort of forced to report on sustainability to really be listed on the stock market and things like that. So there's things like that, that we're seeing happen outside the US that I think now Come come in here. So I guess the big takeaway is there's lots to do. But I think there's there's no reason that that, you know, especially when it comes to the responsibility that public companies have, that we can't continue to really push them push them forward, and maybe to increase the speed of, of change. Because in the past, we've seen it taking a lot longer. And I think right now, there's so many catalysts going on that that it's a really important time to really focus in and really have those conversations.

21:22  
Yeah, the word pivot was pretty popular last year, I feel like this pivotal moment, we're sitting in that we have the opportunity to do that, you just that you casually slid in what's happening overseas, and you and I know what's happening overseas, but could you share with the audience a little bit what you meant about more accountability on the stock market? In other spaces around sustainability?

21:47  
Yeah, definitely, I think, you know, we've certainly seen a big increase over the past couple years where where ESG is a little more understood, it's a popular topic you're sort of seeing it talked about on, we're definitely still a few years behind Europe, where, where ESG is very much a part of the asset management culture across the board. It's not specifically, you know, firms like like ours, like impacts, and others, it's more integrated into understanding that, to truly value a company, you need to be looking at these ESG factors, because those are really key to the valuation. Yeah, and we're also seeing more pushes, from a regulatory standpoint, in terms of, you know, reporting on sustainability aspects, there's various markets, where you have to have some sustainability reports in order to sort of be be listed and have investors. So it's a little more understood there that, that of course, they're going to be more transparent about this work. So you know, while we certainly invest in global companies, it's, I think the US has more work to be to be done. And in terms of, you know, kind of encouraging, and I don't wanna use the word forcing, but but sort of encouraging and having to require, I guess, is a better word, require these companies to really pour report on on these sustainability metrics. And that'll make it easier to for folks like us to really, again, see that information because right now we have to do a lot of hands on hands on work to find out the information, especially like you said, when it comes to gender criteria, and even more racial criteria, then there's there's differences certainly here in the US and abroad in terms of how we even get that that level of data and whether or not it's, it's provided to us so. So yeah, I think if we see sort of the the growth of the sustainable space, in Europe, especially it's much bigger than it has been in the US. And so we see that kind of as trending or trending towards SLM there's lessons that can be that can be learned there, especially, you know, a lot of these issues, but especially, you know, climate change, and with the cop 26 conference coming up, you know, these are, these are global worldwide issues, right, they're not issues that that can be that can be sustained just in our backyard or or backyard of other countries. So I think those are really issue areas that are going to be across the across the board. So it should be interesting to see what you know, what momentum this this kind of continues and what change it creates?

24:03  
Yeah, and I think the transparency, I mean, I could go off and have a whole episode about. Um, I think that transparency of the end investor really understanding that or the do it yourself or because not everybody utilizes a financial advisor like myself, and that doesn't mean that they shouldn't have access to the information to be able to do their job, right, of managing their own money. And I think if they can, just like you can go onto Morningstar, and you can find an evaluation of the returns and who does the portfolio and what's, you know, if it's a mutual fund, what are the underlying securities and you can find all that stuff. Also, you can find it for a fee, right? Like the end investor has to pay for some of that stuff. They can't get all of the information and it takes a lot of research. So how can we be more transparent for individuals to be able to do that research themselves, or even companies like I think about Um, you know, Europe has really been very forward with the requirements of retirement plans and pension plans when it comes to offering a sustainable option. And that's a question I get so often from clients is, well, how do I do it in my 401k? Mm hmm. And how do I offer sustainable investing? In my 401k? I don't, is that even an option for me? And yeah, we

25:29  
get that question a lot, too. Because that's like, when we think about, you know, like you said, how you've talked about, you know, how you can have a sustainability focused around your daily live and where you shop, and but like, when we think about where we invest, the first place is for most of us that 401k plan. And so I've had that question many times, too. And it's just for, you know, we could go off and sort of, like you said, the transparency and the legal legal hurdles we've had in that space. But there have been some some roadblocks to kind of putting sustainable investing in a bit of a box where it was not quite safe to go there for 401k plans, and the various Department of Labor rules, we've seen that shift and change to different political environments. But I think, you know, we're at a time where it's, it's opening back up, and it's saying it's okay to offer these options. So my advice, and you probably say the same thing, Shannon is is, you know, go to HR. And and and say, you know, I noticed we don't have any sustainable Investing Options on here. Can you look into this and and as you know, you know, every 401k plan is going to have a plan, sponsor and provider, and there's options out there. So it might not be that they've sort of turned on those options, or made them transparent enough. But I think that's always a great place to start to make sure that you're getting those options on there. Because that's very important to a lot of folks.

26:47  
Yeah, and I'll, I'll just caveat the aspect of like, get a group of people who are interested in it more make noise, the more who get listened to, because if you're just one individual, sometimes it'll be like, yeah, okay, whatever. We'll deal with that. Whenever. But if you have a group of individuals that are really passionate about this topic, and you want that option available, that's something that you can go to, you know, I always say in numbers. It helps, right?

27:18  
Yeah, that's a good point, too. And we and we've seen kind of that, too, when we think about like, trends and flows of big dollars this space, right? I mean, it took a lot of on the ground sort of student work, to push, you know, university endowments to to invest more responsibly, and we're starting to kind of see that momentum with Harvard, who is one of the big holdouts there for so long, finally, kind of making some fossil fuel free commitments. So so you're right, I think if you can, if you can band together, you know, the louder your voice can be. And you know, especially with your 401k, that's your hard earned money. It's a very key part, like I'm sure you tell people, Shannon of your initial investments that you want to make sure that you're maxing out that you're making, perhaps your company matches. So yeah, definitely there's, there's options out there. So so keep keep pushing the envelope if your company's not offering any, because they should be well, and

28:09  
if we think about the greater impact if if you can make that push as an employee to your employer, there are so many assets within retirement plans that if we can get to a point where that is an option, again, we're never saying that it has to be the only option. It's just saying that it's accessible. And you mentioned this a little bit earlier before, that fear of, of not having it within a 401k was mainly based off of the history of returns and the limited accessibility because when you go into a sustainable model, that the market shrinks, right, you don't have full access to every single market. Why is it that people have always thought that returns are gonna sacrifice when you align yourself with a sustainable investment strategy?

28:58  
Yeah, the question that always comes up we like to talk about as an old myth of sustainable investing, but it but you're right, it's definitely one that's still out there. And it's one that I'm sure you have conversations with clients about because it's, it's a legitimate concern people have and rightly so. Right. I mean, I think this space, you know, like I said, we started 50 years ago, you know, back then it was it was definitely more of an emphasis on let's exclude certain things from the portfolio that don't match our values, whether historically it was more religious based values, and now maybe more its values around social consciousness and, and climate change related issues. And so like you said, when you start excluding, excluding and that's the real focus, you are limiting your, your, your, your investable universe, right, and that can affect affect your performance over time. I think where we've gotten to now is firms like ours and others who really are taking the time to do the research on these companies and really rate them from an ESG perspective, not just use a third party data provider, not just use, you know what, what the company is telling us, but really get in there and Do the do the due diligence. were truly finding out what their what their profile is. So I think that's going to continue to be to be really important as well.

30:10  
Yeah, and I think that a lot of times at least the conversations that I have with clients is if you couldn't sacrifice if you didn't have to sacrifice return, and you could align with making a greater impact with the planet, and people while not suffering from a profit perspective, would you do it? Right, right. And nine times out of 10 the answers and I wouldn't even say like 9.9% of them yeah, yeah, yeah. Well, yeah, why

30:39  
wouldn't I do that and Right, exactly, yeah, yeah. And it feels like Yep, it doesn't

30:45  
have to be political I think so many times we think that wow, I get this a lot and I've got it throughout my career Well, you're just a hippie or tree hugger you know. I was raised by hippies were very much so they're artists and hippies the fact that I work in wealth management they're like blows their mind every single time we talk about it, but why is it that way? Can we just like get rid of that myth that it doesn't it's not politically based?

31:16  
Yeah, that I know I wish we could because I think there's there's other folks in your in your C janin who who don't even want to bring up the subject right? Because they feel like they they maybe their personal values as an advisor are not the same as their clients or maybe they don't want to you know a friend I had advisor years back who didn't want to put a mention on the website about sustainable investing because they thought that would would show that they really believed in certain things that that maybe they didn't and so it's it's it's a bit of a minefield, I agree but but I think you're right i think there's so many ways to kind of look at the angle from a performance standpoint from a risk standpoint right? If you think about you know, not to get onto negative examples we think about like the BP oil spill or the Equifax data breach or you know, Volkswagen etc, etc. You know, well investing with a sustainable lens and with this ESG perspective can't predict everything that's going to happen it is a big risk avoider tool right so so while you might have that debate about performance, the fact that you can be avoiding companies or sectors of the market in general that are very volatile are based on you know, past performance and past history are you know, again, you couldn't predict what was going to happen but you can see that those those issues and those sort of scandals that happened with companies you know, their stock price plummets it continues to plummet for years to come we've seen that with with both environmental issues but also with you know, a number of sort of you know, sexual discrimination scandals we see go on with companies it's it's not it's not forgotten when it's factored into the stock price so I think there's that big risk perspective of this space as well that's an important to look at and so you certainly could have folks that maybe they're not super passionate about one of these issue areas but but they like the fact that ESG is long term like you said it's it's sustainable investing is Smart Investing, it's investing of the future, right? So you have all sorts of you know, a variety of reasons why you've come to this some people might again, just be thinking about it that that it is a long term viewpoint that it factors in risks and it's thinking about where we are in terms of this this sustainable economy so

33:23  
yeah, and I would argue that there are some things that maybe aren't like hot button social issues, right, like some people might like go into climate change and you know, racial unrest and things like that as hot button issues. And that might be not as important but we can start to talk about you just mentioned it Equifax data breach, right? Like the aspect of security within companies the aspect of privacy sharing and data sharing and and when we go into you know, Facebook would probably be a really great one to talk about privacy and data issues right? Everybody likes Facebook stock because it goes like this right? But the fact that Facebook shares all your data right right. Um, so I think it's that give and take like, what what is it that's actually really important to you? That's not a political issue either. I mean, some people could argue that it's a political issue and you can argue everything is a political issue. You know, whether I wear bracelets or lipstick could be whatever you know, you want it to be. But um, that being said, I think it's this aspect of again, looking at it, do you want something better for the people that are around you? Do you want something better for the planet and do you also want to make a profit at the same time, and I bring it back to even like a fourth P. And that's planning because the reality is if you plan for yourself from a financial planning perspective, and you actually are looking at it, as I have enough income to live off of I have enough savings, I have enough access to different tax implications. You know, like I've gotten enough tax free I've done enough taxable I've gotten tax deferred. If you don't understand what I'm talking about just means like when can you You access that money and what will be the tax consequences of them? If you've planned for that, and you don't need 32% return, which I think, you know, some people like thinking that they need to have double digit crazy returns all the time. The reality is from a planning perspective, I don't ever use anything above 8% for a financial plan. Right, and that's on the high, you know, more risky side of things, right. So when you look at that full picture of the piece, it's starting with the planning part of it, making sure that you are set for yourself, in your family, and what's important to you, and then look at the overall impact of the things that you're invested in, in order to make that impact in the future.

35:47  
I like that well said Yeah, because I think you're right, I mean, I think you know, you can break down so many of these issues, but at the end of the day, you know, we feel like we really can't choose publicly traded companies you know, we can't really be responsible investors if we're not factoring these things in right and so you know, so much of a company's value now you know, used to be based on those those tangibles the brick and mortar, the buildings, the land, what were they were producing, and it's now switched, where I think it's now you know, 90% of a sap company's values is is in intangibles, which is reputation, which is brand, which is, you know, customer view. So, you know, while you can go down a lot of different holes, and, and, and paths for this space, at the end of the day, you know, incorporating, you know, looking at how a company is dealing with these issues is really saying, you know, how, how resilient is this company? Right? How well do they, you know, transition through through risky times, like we've just gone through, right? Are they really leaders in their industry? Are they going to be in a better position than their peers because they're thinking of these longer term issues. So So yeah, there's so many different ways to look at it. But that's why it's great folks have you to translate all the all this noise and I love your I love the four Ps. That's great.

37:05  
Awesome. Well, thank you, Emily, for hanging out with me today. And our audience in the future as they listen to this. I know that impacts has a lot of really great resources, both for myself as an advisor, but also for the end investor. Is there any resources or things that you would make available to the audience to listen to for their own indulgence?

37:26  
Yeah, that's a great question. There's so many great things out there. Our website is impax am so I MPa x am calm. One thing I love on the website is we've got blogs from some of our research analysts and portfolio managers. We have a recent paper on they're talking about the research behind gender diversity. We've got some upcoming articles on on the cop 26 events. So just things around various ESG topics that you can kind of look into we've got some videos on there as well about how to invest like a feminist and what ESG means. And so yeah, I'd say definitely play around in there, you can find some interesting stuff, and it'll lead you to other places as well. So a simple googling these days of sustainable investing will will set you for quite a while which is which is great to see. I think there's so many articles and so much interesting stuff about it. Much more than there used to be so appreciate asking me that.

38:20  
Yeah, absolutely. Well, thank you so much for your partnership and your time today.

38:24  
Thank you. It's a pleasure.

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